Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Thomas Larsen's avatar

I find this post poorly argued.

I think this whole picture involves not thinking about what the world looks like after superintelligence. It doesn't sound like you are imagining

- billions or trillions of robots doing all physical labour

- all economically relevant cognitive tasks performed by humans are now performed by AIs

- all of this is happening so quickly that humans are not able to keep up with the pace of discovery

You argue for limits on intelligence, which might be correct. But the specific limits you talk about -- like "Predicting the locations of all the lakes and rivers on earth in 50 years" are much much higher bars than the capabilities discussed above. And you obviously don't need to have an insane level of prescience of the type you describe to take over the world.

For example, the takeover story in AI 2027 didn't rely on any vastly superhuman capabilities, it only relied on basically normal politicking, industrial buildouts, and bioweapons. More generally, AI takeover / extinction arguments don't rely on anything crazy like

So the real claim you are (implicitly) arguing for is that AI capabilities will hit a wall before being able to automate the whole economy. I agree that AI takeover/extinction seems unlikely if the AIs cannot do all economically relevant tasks (including, e.g. extremely complicated economically relevant tasks like building new EUV machines), largely because AIs won't be able to be self-sufficient afterwards. But humans somehow manage to build new EUV machines (and operate the rest of the economy). So this is a vastly lower capability bar than the examples you argue against in the post.

I think you should more directly try to think about exactly how far AI capabilities will go. Start with the automation of all economically relevant tasks, and try to make specific claims about what tasks you think AIs won't be able to do. Then, once AIs cross the supposed walls, I hope you'll update towards my position.

Karl von Wendt's avatar

Some thoughts:

On "Techno-Optimism": Like you, I believe technology has been strongly net-positive for humanity. At the same time, (almost) every new technology can cause damage that clearly outweighs its potential benefits: A knife can cut bread or kill a person. The reason why knives (and technology in general) are still net-positive is that we KNOW and CARE about their risks: we keep them out of the hands of children, don't allow them on board of planes, etc. With powerful AI, I think most decision makers either don't know or don't care sufficiently about the risks.

On the limits of intelligence: To become uncontrollable and destroy our future, an AI would neither have to be allknowing nor allmighty. All it needs to be is a superhuman manipulator that is able to take over power the same way a human dictator would, only 100x more effective. It could then make sure that we'll not get in the way of whatever goal it pursues, which is very likely not a goal we would want it to pursue. It will likely not destroy us on purpose, just as we don't destroy rhinos on purpose. We just change the world in a way that suits our goals, not theirs.

On alignment: Regardless how easy to solve problem 2 and 3 may or may not be, as long as problem 1 is not solved, we must not risk creating something that could get out of control. This does not mean we can't continue developing powerful AI - there are many safe ways to use narrow superhuman tool-AI or sub-human general-purpose AI that in combination I believe can help us achieve almost anything a superintelligent AGI could do for us.

26 more comments...

No posts

Ready for more?